Why Buhari Needs Pessimists Like Dr. Femi Aribisala.

Dr. Femi Aribisala, a pastor and Vanguard columnist, in this interaction with Vanguard editors, ventilates his passion for President Goodluck Jonathan and explains his position on the person and politics of the president-elect, Major-General Muhammadu Buhari.

Excerpts:

What is your perspective on the just concluded presidential election?

This has been the most important political campaign I have witnessed in Nigeria. And the campaign will, to some extent, define the presidency. There were things that needed to be said, emphasized and brought to Buhari’s attention because we needed to remind him that some things would not be acceptable if he becomes the president. Buhari was made to go through a lot of phases. There were some things like the Muslim-Muslim ticket which some of us made so much noise about and they just had to drop it at some point. There were other things that Buhari did which he would not normally do because we made so much noise about his antecedents. Sometimes people simplistically define the process by the result. No! The whole debate is to make him understand that it is not what he had before. It was to make him realize that this is a democratic framework. It was also to sensitize him that certain things would not be acceptable.

How did you come about your claim that INEC rigged the election for Buhari?

There are certain things that are interesting about this election. The first one is that it is one of the most keenly contested elections that we have had in this country. It involved more people. But 10 million less people voted than last time, which gives us some idea as to how true some of the figures we have been having before had been. But the question is: Where did the decline of 10 million come from? I discovered that it came disproportionately in certain areas than it did in others. And to some extent, if you look at the PVC distribution, you can project the election. It is because Buhari could campaign in the South, but the North did not permit same kind of liberty for the president. The president was stoned in Buachi and he was threatened. By the time the pattern of PVC distribution became very known even in war-torn states, it was easy to know that it had been front-loaded. When you then analyze the election result itself, you will discover that some places just had an incredible suppression of voters in spite of high level of interest. Some people had an incredible number of voters. And I am still interested in why more people voted in the governorship election in Katsina than the presidential election.

On alleged gang- up against President Jonathan

If Buhari had contested in the United States, there is no way that he could win. It is impossible. We know his antecedents. Nigeria doesn’t even teach history in schools. Once you bring up the antecedents, the very idea of having such a person gunning for a position, not even talk of the presidency, would have nullified his candidacy. I was not just writing about Buhari because he tried to arrest me. There were all sorts of things that he did and for which he never apologised. Buhari took ownership of those things. And he never asked for forgiveness. At different points in the history of Nigeria, he was given an opportunity to do that. We set up a Truth and Reconciliation Commission but he refused to do it. You don’t forgive a man who does not repent.

With regards to President Jonathan, I had a problem with the gang-up. And I think it is wrong for two major tribes to gang up against someone from the minority. Why should a President be called clueless? I don’t think that someone will get away with calling Obasanjo clueless. Somehow I feel that the South-South is entitled to have their son as president and we were acting as if we were doing them a favour. If it was not providence that threw up Goodluck Jonathan, I wonder if we would have considered having a South-South president. In the interest of national unity, the North-West producing the president again does not balance any equation in Nigeria. If we are talking about a president from the North, we should be talking about the North-East. I was offended that from the beginning, some people insisted that there would be a civil war if the man ran. They also insisted that they would create a problem if the man ran. And I said that Nigeria belongs to every one of us. So that was an issue to me.

Wole Soyinka had vowed not to support Buhari but a few weeks to the election, he asked Nigerians to forget the past and move on. Are you not being unfair to Buhari given the circumstances we found ourselves?

I said you only forgive somebody who repents. Buhari has never asked anyone to forgive him. So you are jumping into conclusion that we have a new Buhari? And the fact that he has won the election has not won him forgiveness. We are going to see if Buhari has changed. And I have said that if he has changed, he will do more than just wearing a suit. He will come out and apologise for things done and overdone. He said he took responsibility which is different from apologising. The man who admitted stealing a cow is different from the one who said forgive me for stealing a cow. Buhari is a very deliberate man.

I am not persuaded by the election campaign that Buhari is going to be a very competent president. I have not seen any competence in him. There was nothing in the campaign that was of substance that impressed me. No new ideas came from Buhari or the APC. Most of the people in APC are PDP people. So I am not persuaded that we are in for any new thing. But I hope you are right.

Beyond Buhari, you are also not a friend of Bola Tinubu. What are your reasons?

I wonder why anybody will be a fan of Bola Tinubu especially if you live in Lagos. He is not a democrat. I don’t like Bola Tinubu because he has monopolised Lagos politics. To some extent, Ekiti governorship election was lost because of him. I live in Lekki and every day I have to pay toll fare and I wish I was not doing that. APC is in control of the media to a very large extent. Governor Fashola has gotten an easy pass with the media. It is easy for a Lagos State governor to be seen to be good because he has resources. In the light of the resources of the state, only 10 percent of the people have access to potable water, the same percentage has access to educational structures. In order for the APC to survive, the resources of this state had to be commandeered for political purposes. So, you can see the end justifies the means.

I think it will be foolish of Tinubu to take AIT to court over the Lion of Bourdillion case because if he does, the kind of things that would be revealed about him would be shocking. This godfather business is undemocratic. Let people choose their leaders. One person cannot sit somewhere and decide what is best for everybody. I don’t believe that elections are free and fair in Lagos. I do not believe that Jimi Agbaje lost this election. It was APC’s manipulation that brought out the governorship election result. That is my own opinion.

Not many Nigerians are asking Buhari to apologise. What exactly do you want him to apologise for?

It is part of my problem with the media at the moment. We are being given the impression that Buhari won by a landslide. Please let us look at what INEC declared. 12.8 million people voted for Goodluck Jonathan. So don’t assume that they don’t have their reasons or that the people that want him to apologise don’t exist. I maintain that it is very easy to say that we don’t want to look at the past because we want to look at the future. But we need to understand the past in order to move to the future.

So, Buhari needed to apologise. He needed to ask for forgiveness because he killed people through extra-judicial means, he jailed people for telling the truth, he kept people in jail even when kangaroo courts that he set up said they were not guilty. He manipulated the judiciary into jailing some people. I could go on and on. That is why I said that if we were a serious democracy, he would never have gotten away with it. There is a reason Buhari was not nominated by the northerners. They voted for Kwankwaso and Atiku at the primaries. Buhari got his candidacy through Tinubu. We don’t have to pretend that Buhari is well liked because he has won, it seems to be like that but we should know that he only has the plurality of 2.5 million votes.

In your penultimate column you claimed the emphasis on the alleged rigging was in the South-South and South-East, but the PDP was beaten in areas where they had strengths like Niger, Kaduna and other places. You think the resentment was not real?

I mentioned those areas as well. I mentioned Kano, Jigawa, Katsina and Bauchi. I said the results from these places were inflated. We have video recordings of underage voting. There is a problem with the election because if we accept what the PVCs are saying that 17.1 million registered for the election in the North-West alone, the zone will determine future elections. If they decide that they want somebody to be president, by the time we will be looking at the result and they will come up with 9.1 million from Kano, the whole equation would change.

What can you get from Imo and Anambra? So, if the North-West vote is more than the South-South and South-East, there is going to be a problem. There will be a problem if we don’t get the proper census of Nigeria. They used to tell us that Kano was bigger than Lagos. Jigawa was split from Kano and Kano is still supposedly bigger than Lagos. In this last election, about 3.1 million people voted in Kano and Jigawa. And 1.4 million people voted in Lagos. That is twice the number of the people in Lagos. I don’t believe these figures. If you do, fine. I am entitled to my opinion.

You said you don’t like Tinubu because of the reasons you adduced, but when the books would be written, it would be said that Tinubu contributed significantly to Buhari’s emergence as a democratically elected president. What do you make of that?

I don’t agree that Tinubu made Buhari the president. Let’s get the facts right. Tinubu made Buhari the presidential candidate of the APC. But in the presidential election, Buhari did not win Tinubu’s votes. And that is part of the problem. All the discussion before was that everything would be determined in the South-West, but Tinubu did not deliver the South-West. The margin of defeat in the presidential election was not much in Lagos. Tinubu, to some extent at the presidential level, is expendable. And that is the problem. You can actually not choose a president just from the North. It interests me that while the campaign was going on, all the northerners making noise that it was their turn disappeared.

They did not campaign with Buhari. The people campaigning were Tinubu, Amaechi, Fashola. I bet you that the northerners are going to come out come May 29. And you will see it happen. Don’t think that the people that had been clamouring for power to return to the North in the past six years, were doing that for Tinubu to inherit. I don’t believe that. They have an agenda. That is why I said the story is not told because the election has taken place, the story will unfold when the administration comes on board.

 Are you saying that you are impressed with Jonathan’s performance?

Yes I am. I think APC ran a fantastic campaign. They hired Obama’s people and they controlled so many different things. So, a lot of things were simply propaganda. And part of the problem with the PDP was that they had it so easy for so long that they did not know how to campaign anymore. So, they thought that it was just going to be another cake work, and this was a different issue for them. Many of the things that Jonathan did, his people like Reuben Abati did not talk about it. People just did not know anything until some spirited efforts were made at the last-minute during the extension. That was when they now told people what had happened. But within the framework of Nigerian presidency, Jonathan is a good president if you compare him with others who had occupied that position.

 You are talking about the North being the decider with the way things are now. What then do you think the South-East and South-South can do?

Within the framework of the democratic experiment in Nigeria, the North has been the part of Nigeria that has held the country together. The South-East is neither here nor there. The civil war is still an issue. The South-West doesn’t often show an inclination to take a national outlook. The North voted for Abiola. But the problem with this particular election is that we have an APC that is very sectarian in outlook. APC is not a national party like the PDP. APC is an aggregation of sectarian parties that came together simply to get power at the centre. And in order to do that, they had to distort the process. That is why I said that northerners were intimidated and told that they must vote for Buhari. And this is bad for democracy. When politics gets to the sectarian level, it becomes a problem. And we have allowed it to define and determine this election.

There was no level-playing ground. Buhari could go anywhere in the South and nobody threatened him, but anytime Jonathan wanted to campaign in the North, bombs will explode. We can’t say we are not aware of it. And this tendency will not help this democracy. But we must talk about it. Even though we will say that we are glad that we have missed the bullets of rioters, we need to talk about it.

The truth is that if Jonathan had won, there would have been conflagration because you have a party that only accepts victory. And there is nothing democratic about that. Buhari lost three times, he never congratulated the winners. Jonathan lost once and conceded defeat. Thank God for that. But if Buhari had won, we would have been in trouble. And democracy is not like that. It should not be like that. That is why people who say I am an intractable opponent of Buhari are mistaking my passion. Why can I hate them? In the final analysis, Buhari is now the president-elect, he is going to be my president because the people have spoken. We must ensure that the culture of our democracy is such that a party can field a candidate in the North and not be intimidated with all kinds of sentiments that are going to be introduced. So, this was, in many respects, a flawed election.

Looking forward, do you think this man has the capacity to do the job because many people voted for him because he is seen to be incorruptible? In your view, do you think this man will deliver on the expectations?

In my view, I am pessimistic. I don’t think Buhari can move the economy forward because he has no understanding of economics. I tell people that I am waiting for our currency to be equal to the dollar which is one of the things he promised.

One has to see who his advisers are. Again, one has to deal with his antecedents. If there was a change in Buhari, we should have known it in the last three months. It should have come out from his pronouncements during the campaign, but there was nothing there. He said he is going to give N5,000 to 20 million poor people in Nigeria and that is N120 billion which he is going to give away in a situation where the country is cash strapped. I am going to see how this is going to happen. Buhari does not understand how to tame corruption. He did not succeed the last time.

There are certain tendencies in the man that tells me he does not understand how to tame corruption because we are talking of a change campaign. But who are the people around him? They are not changed people. It is paradoxical that now, the party chairman is saying they don’t want defectors anymore. But how did they come to where they are? I don’t see these changes coming with Buhari. This was a rhetoric that was convenient for the purpose of winning an election. It has succeeded, but don’t let us ascribe more to it. It is going to have some grand gestures but, in the final analysis, will be meaningless.

Don’t you think Nigeria needs a strong leader that can look at influential people in the society and insist that the right things be done? It was so bad that even after the Immigration recruitment tragedy that the Minister of Interior, instead of being sanctioned, was given a national award?

That is not the problem now. Buhari is not the type of person that I would like to call my president. I don’t even agree that he is a strong leader. He is not very intelligent, he is not very articulate and I don’t even agree that he is a strong leader. Most of the positions he held, his deputies were in charge. People run circles around him. Part of the problem with democracy is that we don’t necessarily have the best choices. You have to choose between bad choices or some bad choices. I don’t see anything that will, ordinarily, make me to want Buhari as my president. I don’t see how he is an improvement on Jonathan for whatever it is that you think of Jonathan.

Are you not expressing preconceived biased. People are saying Jonathan saved the country from crisis but that he did not do us proud as president, a situation that Chad and Niger now assist us to combat internal security challenges. Are you saying that you have not recognised personal failings on the side of Jonathan and that you don’t see anything good in Buhari?

Buhari left the army 30 years ago; a lot has changed in 30 years. Maitasine were bow and arrow people. But Boko Haram is a completely different kettle of fish. And his approach to the campaign does not seem to recognise that. Part of the problem is that we could not run after Boko Haram so that the borders of Chad, Cameroon and Niger are not violated. And they only became receptive to that when Boko Haram became a problem to them. And that was recently. If we could have surrounded them, it would have been easier for us.

Why didn’t we?

We couldn’t because they could run into Cameroon. The issue about Nigeria is that we are such a big country relating to our neighbours. We have traditionally bent over backwards to tell our neighbours that we have no territorial ambitions and intentions, which could account for the fact that we gave away Bakassi to Cameroon. No country gives away its territory to another country. The tendency in Nigeria is not one that we will begin to violate the territorial integrity of our neigbours. And Goodluck Jonathan is not that kind of person. A situation where, in the middle of an election, Britain and America will begin to interfere does not mean well.

Isn’t that part of the president’s failure?

It is not. It shows you that they have been biased against this country. The Americans refused to sell arms to the government and the government had to go looking in other places. Boko Haram is a different thing. It took the Americans 10 years to get Osama Bin Laden.

But America violated another country’s territory to get him?

That is different. The government invited them and they got a United Nations resolution to back it up. It is so bad that when you read the papers today, you don’t hear about the Jonathan people. They have all disappeared. I am insisting on Jonathan because he is important. The voices of his people have not disappeared. We are going to come back and hold this government to task.

They have made all sorts of noise about Boko Haram, I want to see how Buhari, a retired general, would handle the situation. I want to see him destroy Boko Haram. I want to see how long it would take him. I want to see how long he is going to get the Chibok girls back. Ezekwesili has been making noise about that and I tweeted her to suggest how to get these girls back. We would see how Buhari will do the magic.

Does it mean that you don’t see anything wrong in Jonathan? The Americans say nice guys don’t win ball games. The president may be a nice chap, but his niceness diminished Nigeria’s standing and reputation. Don’t you think he was too nice for the job?

Jonathan has lots of faults. Jonathan had a peculiar problem. He knew that he could not win an election in Nigeria without the North because he is from a minority area. So he bent over backwards with many things.

That is why some of us were interested in his second term because then he would not need any of these people. Some people in the South-South said he did not even do anything in the South. Most of the things he did were in the North yet all he got were four million votes. There were a number of things he did for political expediency. If he fought insurgency in a particular way, people like Buhari would have risen against him. And if he did not fight insurgency, they would have said that he is incompetent. He had to play both sides and clearly the approach that he took did not work. It failed him but that should not prevent us from recognising the dilemma that he was in. He was a president that had his eyes on second term and he felt that he needed to placate some people but it did not work.

Do you think that it was politically savvy of him?

It was his prerogative to have decided not to even run. But he thought he was going to get the votes. In 2011, he got eight million votes from the North and Buhari got 12 million. In 2015, he got four million votes from the North. It was not unrealistic for him to still think that he could still get votes from the North. In 2011, Jonathan got 37 percent of the votes in Katsina. Given the fact that PDP had foothold in the North, it was not unrealistic for him to expect that he could still use the party structure and the governors to get an appreciable amount of votes from the North. But in a place like Bauchi, which is under PDP, practically no vote came from there. Jigawa is under PDP but it was like PDP was non-existent in those states.

However, our democracy is in trouble because the numbers have already been manipulated according to the pattern of PVC distribution. It was not manipulated for not just this election, but the next one. Therefore, we will have a situation where same people will decide again that the North will produce the president as long as we are dealing with these so-called PVCs. They have permanently ensured that one region has supremacy over others. Let us not pretend that it is not what has been achieved. So we need to address that now. We need to start talking about it now.

What is the problem with the PVC?

The problem with the PVC is that nine million people are registering to vote in war-torn Borno. Where are they getting these people? How are they getting 17.1 million people in the North-West? And 15 million in the South-South and the South-East. We have to determine who gets the PVCs. At the point of registering for the PVC, we need to know the nationality of those registering. We need to know if they are Chadians, Nigerians, children or adults. It is quite significant for me that these PVCs failed in the election in some places.

Why should the PVC fail in the South? Buhari did not have any problem of voting but the PVC did not recognise the number one citizen of the country. The failure rate of the PVC in the South-South and South-East was high. In the middle of the election, the rules of the game were changed and the PVC was not needed anymore. By the time we got to the governorship election, the PVC worked better. And I ask: Why did it work better? I believe that the PVC was programmed to fail.

Is this not just prejudice?

I wrote an article in Vanguard before the election where I said I don’t believe.

VANGUARD

[BRILLIANT READ] Simon Kolawole: “We have to do away with the old mindset of do-or-die and put the peace and prosperity of Nigeria above personal interests.”

The time to kill is gone. It is now time to heal.

Gen. Abdulsalami Abubakar. Commodore Ebitu Ukiwe. Alhaji Sa’ad Abubakar III. Cardinal John Onaiyekan. Alhaji Aliko Dangote. Prof. Bolaji Akinyemi. Mr. Sam Amuka-Pemu. Mrs Priscilla Kuye. What do they have in common? Age? Far from it. Politics? Not quite. Cash? No. These were some of the eminent Nigerians in the National Peace Committee convened by Bishop Matthew Kukah to help keep Armageddon at bay before, during and after the 2015 general election. There was also the Justice Mohammed Uwais-led Council of the Wise, convened by Prof. Ibrahim Gambari and supported by Dr. Kole Shettima-led MacArthur Foundation, to help undermine the Doomsday.

Now that the presidential election has come and gone and there are no rioters on the streets, no curfew, no indefinite closure of universities, no massive looting and shooting, no running helter-skelter, no Red Cross, no Red Crescent, no Médecins Sans Frontières, no “Muslim North, Christian South” analysis on CNN, no AU peace-keeping force, it is all too easy to forget that just a few weeks ago, we feared the country was on the verge of a political meltdown. It is also so easy to forget that in addition to all the praying and fasting, there were people who worked tirelessly and selflessly day and night to ensure that Nigeria did not descend into yet another political impasse.

As a young man who has read or seen a lot of political upheavals in Nigeria, I take nothing for granted. In the First Republic, allegations of rigging led to the deaths of as many as 2,000 persons in the “Wetie” uprising in the Western Region. Over 5,000 houses were burnt in protest. In the Second Republic, violence broke out after the 1983 elections. Hon. Tunde Agunbiade, the Majority Leader of Ondo State House of Assembly,  was killed along with his wife, two children, driver and five others. Hon. Olaiya Fagbamigbe, a federal lawmaker and secretary of NPN in Ondo State, was burnt to death. In fact, ten members of his household were burnt with him.

In the aftermath of the annulment of the June 12, 1993 presidential election, soldiers killed protesters mercilessly in Lagos as the military authorities tried to suppress popular resistance. Activists were going in and out of jail by the minute. Everything was paralysed. You could leave your house and get stuck midway, unable to proceed to destination or return home, as a result of constant outbreak of violence. In 2011, more than a thousand persons, including youth corps members on national service, were killed in the north because of the elections. If you do not think deeply, you are most unlikely to appreciate the relative peace we enjoy today.

It is not as if the elections were without incidents. Over 50 persons still lost their lives, and Rivers State looked more like a war zone than an electoral battleground. But by and large, the world did not come to an end as we had feared. That an opposition party won for the first time, that the sitting president did not resort to any funny game but accepted the results and congratulated the winner, that the Niger Delta militants who initially threatened hell fire are now speaking like people who want peace… ladies and gentlemen, if you do not see this season as a positive one worth congratulating ourselves for, then you’re stone-hearted.

We must recognise the efforts of those who managed the situation behind the scene, working the phones, calling meetings, drafting accords and constantly reminding the combatants of their responsibility as statesmen and citizens. Gen. Abubakar, former head of state who chaired the peace committee, appears to enjoy the respect of both President Goodluck Jonathan and Gen. Muhammadu Buhari. It was not an easy deal to strike, and I understand he met with frustrations as supporters of the candidates continued to violate the terms of the agreement through inciting statements and pronouncements.

Ukiwe, former chief of general staff, is a bit quiet but he worked for national peace with absolute commitment. Onaiyekan and Sultan Abubakar III have always demonstrated that religious leaders from opposite faiths can work for the same purpose. Maturity is a key element of leadership lacking in many Nigerian clergymen who are fond of making statements that can only hurt the cause of peace and unity. Dangote, representing the private sector, arrived on the scene just at the right time. Credit must go to Kukah who continues to contribute positively to national development. We must appreciate Uwais and Gambari for their patriotic intervention.

Let me tell you something that you already know: if Nigeria is going to move from strength to strength, it has to be a deliberate plan. Things will not happen on their own. We would not have peace if we don’t work consciously towards it. We would not have national cohesion just like that. We would not banish poverty if we don’t make it a focal point of policy. We are not going to go to bed tonight and wake up tomorrow morning to discover that all the cockroaches and mosquitoes have disappeared. We won’t just get up one day and discover that all our troubles and worries are gone. We must work hard to solve these problems. Let’s be clear about that.

Before the general election, I was asked by many Nigerians and foreigners about a possible breakdown of law and order. Some said 2015 was going to mark the end of Nigeria in line with the supposed “prediction by CIA” which is quoted by experts and commentators who have never seen any such CIA report. While I had my fears about the elections, I never believed Nigeria was about to disband. The Nigeria that I know, the Nigeria I have travelled extensively, the Nigerians that I interact with everyday —I am yet to see concrete signs that they are preparing for divorce, except on Twitter and Facebook. Yet, I would take nothing for granted.

Even in my enthusiasm, I would like to say the job is not finished. Despite the unprecedented level of concessions by those who lost, from the president to the governors, there are those who are still hurting and hurting badly. Some still speak the language of violence. There are those who think vengeance by any means is the best way forward. The message of peace must continue to be preached and pursued with all tenacity and sagacity. We need a new national spirit, a new thinking, a new politics. We have to do away with the old mindset of do-or-die and put the peace and prosperity of Nigeria above personal interests.

I believe we went to war in 1967 because of the inexperience of our leaders. They were too young to manage the combustible side of their personalities. They also did not know how to handle brinkmanship. They had no experience to learn from. I believe we have learnt from the civil war. We are better equipped today.  This has helped us manage other serious crises better, notably the June 12 impasse and the President Umaru Musa Yar’Adua illness-induced constitutional logjam. In all our anger and agitations, we must know that we cannot make progress without peace and national cohesion. The time to kill is gone. It is now time to heal.

 

AND FOUR OTHER THINGS…

THE CHIBOK GIRLS

So it is over a year now that the hapless Chibok schoolgirls were abducted? What a tragedy. I still remember vividly when the media reported that hundreds of girls were kidnapped and how the military authorities hastily announced that all but eight of them had escaped and returned home. As the blame-game and the ‘na only you waka come’ drama broke out, my driver told me something that I will never forget: “They won’t find those girls again. The government has left things too late.” Let’s still hope they will return one day. But government could have done better. Definitely.

XENOPHOBIC SICKNESS

Black South Africans have a history of violence. Perhaps the worst crime of apartheid was that it prevented the blacks from being properly educated and equipped with entrepreneurial skills. The society is still paying —and will continue to pay —the price. These guys are mentally limited and are therefore unable to utilise their opportunities to lead a meaningful life. Ongoing attacks against foreigners whom they accuse of taking their jobs is only a symptom. If they can kill just to steal a mobile phone or nick a wristwatch, what then can’t they do? They need mental and emotional re-engineering. Clearly.

ODE IRELE MYSTERY

While the world is still trying to contain Ebola which turned three West African countries to graveyards, a strange ailment has broken out in Ode Irele, Ondo state, killing 17 persons in two days. It kills with speed —within 24 hours —after a headache, according to reports. Ebola does not kill that fast, and this should worry us more. The disease reportedly started when a corpse was exhumed and those who had contact with it were afflicted. Locals attribute it to an abomination. All I can say is that this is an emergency. We must react and contain it. Decisively.

MEDITERRANEAN TRAGEDY

Many Africans are doing the unthinkable just to get into Europe —and too many are losing their lives in avoidable circumstances. The anarchy in Libya has afforded some fast guys the business opportunity of ferrying would-be migrants by flimsy boats to Italy, where they hope to seek asylum. Nigerians are, not unexpectedly, part of these desperate travellers. I was shocked to learn that some pay as much as $1,000 (or N200,000) to get on the boat. Now if I had access to that kind of money, I would rather sell pure water or recharge cards than flee to Europe. Honestly.

by Simon Kolawole THISDAY

Q and A with Muhammadu Buhari; Why my cabinet will be small..

If statements from the president-elect, Major-General Muhammadu Buhari, are to be believed, the incoming administration, to be inaugurated on May 29, will hit the ground running. Buhari says he intends to put together a small cabinet that may go into action even before the swearing-in. In a nutshell, he speaks on the shape of things to come in this interview. 

 Buhari speaking with Journalists at his Daura home

There has been an influx of defectors from the ruling People’s Democratic Party, PDP, to your party, APC, since after your victory at the polls. Many think the development may destabilise the APC. How do you intend to manage the situation?

I think this is a question meant for the party. I wish John Oyegun was here to answer you because we have a system. Just because I am the presidential candidate and the president-elect, I don’t think  the system has allowed me to usurp the power of the party executives. But, certainly, in a multi-party democratic system, fundamentally, it is the number that matters for the people. But for the party, what matters is the ability to manage the number so that the majority will have its way and  there will be justice. No matter what happens to the PDP by May 29, I assure you or I assure them through you that there will be justice in the APC.

A new government, which you will head, will soon be inaugurated. Can you tell us what criteria you will be using in selecting those who you will work with?

It is a difficult time for Nigerians as you all know. I have said it in the past that, in the last 16 years, Nigeria has never realised the amount of revenue it received. The price of a barrel of crude oil rose to about 140 dollars and then  crashed to about 50 dollars. During the 16 years, we know what happened to some big companies that employ a lot of Nigerians and give them training facilities like the Nigeria Airways, Nigeria  National Shipping Line.

Even Nigeria Railway is managing to be on paper with some refurbished engines moving from Lagos to Ibadan and a few other places. If you go to their stations all over the country, you will realise that they are in a terrible shape. The important thing in a country with a huge population  of youths with more than 60 percent of them under the age of 30 who are unemployed is that you  need these institutions to give jobs and training to them. It is very disappointing that the PDP government virtually failed to use those resources to  grow the economy.

I think the worst thing is the lack of accountability and the terrible budgetary system. Imagine that over 90 percent of Nigerian budget is on recurrent. How can you sustain development in a country like Nigeria with only about 10 percent of your income? Things just have to change. There must be more money available for infrastructure, for investment in getting the factories back, employment and getting goods and services for the population. I think the sins of PDP will be coming out for several years to come.

Do  we expect a government of national unity?

Again, you want me to encroach on the party’s main power. Even if I, as president-elect, want to form a broad based government, I think that the executive of the party will have some influence on that decision. So, for me to maintain a good rapport with the leadership of the party, I want to keep your question in abeyance until further notice.

The 2015 elections did not go without pockets of violence here and there. Does that strike you in any way?

I think there are less disruptions in the second leg of the general elections on April 11 than we had  during the presidential and National Assembly elections. I hope it was as a result of the bandwagon effect because APC had the upper hand during the  first leg of elections. But what happened in the South-South and the South-East cannot be compared to what happened on April 11.

What I saw was that there was a few ballot snatching in some local government areas of Bayelsa State and a few disruptions in Adamawa, but that is nothing near what happened on March 28. I don’t think what happened on 11 is up to 25 percent of what happened  on March 28?  I think that after the elections, both parties, APC and PDP, will perhaps make their representations to INEC or the courts and then more details will emerge. Maybe we had less infractions on April 11 because the turnout was much lower. Maybe the people just wanted a president and once they got one, they just walked away. They are Nigerians and there is nothing we can do, but to convince them that they have to use this weapon which is the permanent voter cards (PVCs)

Reports from Rivers and some states on April 11 indicated violence. How do you feel about this?

I think we should allow INEC to give its comprehensive report. Meanwhile, as you mentioned in some of the states, especially in Rivers and Lagos, the two parties slugged it out. I think we have to take our time and let us get as much report as possible in accordance with the Electoral Act. I personally want to be legal about this so that people will appreciate that we believe in a system. What we need to do is to modify the system according to the law if we don’t like it, and  no one should come out and do to the system whatever he likes. For what happened in Lagos, I think that for whatever political reason, the PDP wanted to have Lagos by all means.

I have a lot of respect for the governor of Rivers State for his courage. At a certain time, the Commissioner of  Police virtually hijacked the state and the governor was virtually sentenced to the streets fighting thugs without law enforcement agents while the Constitution makes it very clear that the governor is the Chief Security Officer of the state.

So, a lot of  lawless acts of the PDP are on record and we intend to make the PDP understand it and make sure that, according to  the law, those who are responsible for that are taken to the court and properly charged. We are in this system because we believe in it and we want it to stabilize because it is good for our country. If Nigerians have the confidence that their votes count, then they will mind their business and I assure you that there will be more  security in the country.

But when people feel that they are abandoned, then they will resist. I think that by nature, human beings are rebels especially in Nigeria. You must try and placate them, convince them and show them that their rights are respected or you will not have peace. On what we hear about the money that changed hands, it would have been impossible for APC to win anything in this country because we don’t have the treasury in our pocket. There was no amount of money that could convince Nigerians this time around.

A lot of them took the money and did exactly what their conscience wanted them to do, while some even returned the money. Somehow, Rivers and Lagos were  seen as strategic to the PDP. Otherwise, how could  APC have a marginal 100,000 votes over APC in Lagos which is virtually the capital of the APC in the South- West?  A lot of things will come out, but we want to do it basically on facts which can be verified and quantified.

To some  extent, the general elections are seen by many to be credible. Will you try to retain the INEC Chairman to build on the successes recorded even though he said he wouldn’t accept another term of office?

I think Prof. Jega knows exactly what to do. He has already said that he is not going to accept a renewal of his tenure in June. I believe that he has learnt enough and will submit a comprehensive hand over notes some of which he seems to have written. At the last National Council of States meeting, he submitted a document of INEC activities right from the 2011 general elections to date with attachment showing the personnel trained, acquisition of election materials, the distributions, security, among others, and I don’t think that such that report can be faulted.

In fact, INEC was forced to accept the six weeks extension by the Office of the National Security Adviser. Luckily, those six weeks were accommodated within the constitutional time limit within which election must hold. The law says election must hold 30 days before 29th of May. So, INEC did not have much trouble to agreeing to the six weeks extension. As people say, it has come to pass.

For many years, Nigerians have been clamouring that something be done to punish those involved in election rigging. The Uwais Committee recommended a special court to try electoral offenders, but government has refused to implement that recommendation. Will your government set up a special court to try electoral offenders?

No matter how you the media try, you will not catch me undermining the authority of the party. I will look for understanding and cooperation from the National Assembly when a change of the Constitution or the Electoral Act is necessary. So for me to make up my mind here and later try to lobby is out of it because, some of them, if they are very hard, they will give me a tough time.

I will say that I haven’t read the Uwais Report, but l have read a few extracts from news papers. l think it is a good thing and we will encourage it. But we need to get a comprehensive report from the field. The running battle in Rivers, South-East and South-South, especially by Governor Amaechi, Rochas Okorocha and governor of Edo state with INEC officials and law enforcement agencies and  the army is remarkable and I think it has to be totally exposed so that Nigerians will know which of the law enforcement agencies and at what levels is undermining the Constitution of Nigeria because the Electoral  Act is derived from the Constitution of the country so that, in future, those who are in position will know that they are not above the law. I think that is what will bring more stability into the system. In view of that, I will try and work with the National Assembly to make sure that we do something about it.

There are speculations that looting of public treasury is ongoing in the land. What do you intend to do to check this problem?

I will like to work within the system because we believe in it. I have just told you about three governors and the battle they have with law enforcement agents in their states. We discussed and I  advised them to try and document these things so that they can be taken before the court and we will make sure that we register the cooperation of the court so that people who work against the law are prosecuted, especially those who have lost their immunity because this is the best way to stabilize the system.

People must not benefit from being lawless. You can’t be in a position by virtue of the Constitution, subvert the Constitution and continue to enjoy the privileges offered by the Constitution. I don’t think that will be acceptable by the APC. So, whether you are in the opposition or government, you have to behave yourself. I think that is the way we can make progress.

APC preaches transparency and accountability. But a lot of people with apparent questionable characters are moving into the APC. Don’t you think they will also pollute the APC?

For those that are coming into the APC, I have no fear because we have our party structure. The fact that you were a party Chairman or you were a minister before you joined the APC, we appreciate the fact that you remain relevant in your immediate locality. But when it comes to the centre, there is  equality in the way the government will handle you.

If we win majority of members of the National Assembly and House of Assembly in the states, it means that it is with the agreement of their constituencies that the Federal Government has the power that it has. If the Federal Government is insisting on accountability and being responsible, even if they go back to their constituencies, there is nothing they can do about the decision of the government. We are banking on that. I will give you an example of my state, Katsina.

In 2011, the CPC won all the senatorial seats and 13 out of the 15 House of Representatives seats but lost the governorship. Who did the election? Did people from space come to do the election? That is the bad thing about lack of cohesion in a party. Leadership at all levels must work in concert. Otherwise, what Katsina State suffered, any state or the centre can suffer same. Those who were chief executives from local government, to states will be encouraged to work together.

So, those that are coming in, I hope they will accept that they are coming to join those who succeeded and they should cooperate with them. They can’t come and say that because they were once ministers under PDP, they will join APC and become ministers the following month or so. I don’t think that it will be acceptable even by their constituencies.

You introduced War Against Indiscipline, WAI, as the military Head of State in 1984 to fight indiscipline. Years after, the cankerworm has remained? How do you intend to handle this? 

I will mention how it came about. When we had our first Supreme Council meeting and governors were appointed, in my office, it was only me and the late Tunde Idiagbon, we discussed and agreed that the main problem of Nigeria was indiscipline. If we could get majority of Nigerians to accept, which ever level they were, we will make a lot of progress. I could recall that I advised that we should go to the Ministry of Information because there were a lot of people with first degree, masters and Ph.D who were sociologists and criminologists just warming their seats.

They should get together and come up with a programme that will last for years and not just for six months and fizzle out. That was how we came about WAI. It was very well thought out. It was a military system. In democracy, people want a lot of freedom, but if they see the restraint in advanced democracies in Europe and America, they will realise that discipline is forced on people. There are things that, no matter how much you want to do them, you can’t do them.

I think that we have suffered enough as a people and I think that people are more prepared to behave properly now. About two years ago, I made some remarks in Hausa and people felt, now, some senior civil servants who are Directors either at the state or federal can’t educate four children because the level of education has gone down so much. Those that can afford will rather send their children to Ghana or Sudan and those who can afford it more send theirs to America and Europe because the educational system in Nigeria has virtually collapsed.

Therefore, we feel that, by voting APC into power, Nigerians are placing confidence in us. On security, economy, especially unemployment and corruption, I believe that Nigerians will give us the understanding to make sure that we get our priorities right. Education is going to be very important because when you educate the people, you solve half of your problems because there is a level that an educated person will not accept. But when people are sentenced to illiteracy, when they are exposed to all manner of social vices such as ethnicity and religion so that people don’t move forward, they are used to fight themselves.

During your campaigns you promised to declare your assets if elected. Now that you have been elected, will you stick to your position?

I made a statement which has not been correctly captured by the media. I said that our generation, from the Murtala, made sure that those who had appointments must declare their assets and this was later articulated in the Constitution.

It is up to government to make sure that those who borrow money to build a house and end up with another house somewhere else with 50 bedrooms and 20 living rooms should explain to Nigerians how they got the money. I could recall that I declared my assets three times. First was when I got my first political appointment as governor of Borno State; secondly, when I was leaving government to go to the United States War College. I declared my assets then because I was closing my political chapter then technically. I could recall that Gen. Jemibewon was the Adjutant General of the Nigerian Army then. I had to declare my assets, deposit it there to be taken to court before I was allowed to proceed to the United States for my course.

The third one was when I became Head of State. From General Obasanjo down till now, those of us who  were in the Supreme Military Council, Council of State, Executive Council and even those who were Permanent Secretaries, at the time we got our appointment, the courts should be made to produce our declarations. So, all the noise about people being rich and nobody is saying anything about it, why can’t you prick the conscience of the existing government or are some of you part of the cover up?

There have been reports that you promised to end the Boko Haram insurgency within two months, but your media team reacted saying you never said so. Can you now set the record straight?

I think I am too experienced in internal security to give two months deadline on Boko Haram. I don’t think I would have made that mistake because I tried to look at some of my experiences even when I was in uniform with the rebels from Chad when I was GOC in Jos and with Maitatsine. So, for me to say that when I come into office, I will get rid of Boko Haram in two months, I don’t think I would have made that statement. I didn’t.

As I have mentioned on several occasions, we that have, at one time or the other, wore Nigeria military uniform felt terribly embarrassed that for six years, the military couldn’t bring order to 14 out of 774 local governments in the country after Burma, Zaire, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Dafur where Nigerian military earned respect internationally for their performance.

To fail to secure 14 out of 774 local governments. I still can’t reconcile myself with that disgrace. We will try and work with our neigbours such as Chad, Cameroon and Niger who are fighting Boko Haram for us. Look at Chad helping Nigeria or Niger, or Cameroon itself. This nation has been humiliated by the PDP. God willing, with our experiences, we will quickly marshal support and we are asking Boko Haram to pack and go.

Can we know when your Transition Committee would be in place?

We have started discussing about it. Personally, I will make sure that it is not too big because if it is big, they will start thinking of how to influence the choice of ministers either for themselves or those they want to be ministers. But my idea is to get knowledgable and experienced technocrats who are really patriotic to study the handing over notes by ministries and make recommendations.

I want them to be completely detached people who are patriotic Nigerians, who are knowledgable and experienced. If we get majority of politicians involved it will lead to a lot of row and we may end up with inconclusive recommendations which are not very helpful in our condition.

When I get it ready and before it is published, I will show it to the leadership of my party and the terms of reference as well as the time limit and the result of their work, we will quickly study before the inauguration so that before we are sworn-in, we get into action.

 VANGUARD